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 Post subject: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:00 am 
The New Guy

Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:29 pm
Posts: 3
Location: UK
I've posted this on another forum (based in the UK) but hopefully I can get a bit of international opinion as well:

After a couple of cheeky yomps with a large amount of signals kit I've decided that I'm in the market to either upgrade my current bergan or buy a gucci one off the shelf.

I've had a look around the forums and at different retailers - any recommendations and opinions much appreciated!

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What it ideally needs to do:

Hold all my crap
Hold a bunch of top flapped signals crap
Be as comfortable as a bag full of 120 lbs of kit can be
Not completely bankrupt me (ideally)
Be compatible with CBA or Osprey if required
Work well with a chest rig
Have the ability to access things like cooker/scran without going into the main body

I generally wear a chest rig as personal preference, either a lightweight molle one holding just mags and grenades or an old style NI one with a bit of oggin and some admin bits and pieces in it. Of course sometimes I'll go back to belt rig depending on the task at hand.

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The options so far:

Stick with the issued bergan:

Image

Price: Free

Pros:
Free
If it breaks the nice man in stores will give me a new one
Sturdy

Cons:
Can be fecking uncomfortable
Not terribly compatible with wearing a chest rig (no belt rig to provide needed support)
Waist belt is a bit ****
Works remarkably similar to a cheese grater on the back

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Get the issued bergan modified:

Image

Price: Depends on what you want but can get very pricey

Proposed changes:

Bergen straps widened
Utility pouches added to front
Back pad
Poncho pouch on front
Mesh pouches behind side pouches
Floating lid

Tailors:
Troopers of Colchester
Dixies Corner
Dragon Supplies
JayJays of Brecon
1157 Tactical
GM Supplies

Pros:

A vast range of customisation available
Would be more comfortable
Added bonus of still being useable for selection

Cons:

Still the same old bergan
Current prices are quite steep if you want to get a few things done (understandable considering that it's all bespoke stuff)

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Elite Ops BMF Bergen Multicam:

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Elite Ops BMF Bergen Multicam | Warrior Assault Systems

Price £220

Pros:

Layout works well for a living out of a bergan - little need to access main compartment
Decent amount of storage space

Cons:

Unknown build quality (though I have some other kit from Warrior and it's well made)
May be more suited to be worn with a belt rig
Can't find any reviews

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Karrimor SF Predator 80 - 130:

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Predator 80-130 PLCE Modular

£220.00

Pros:

Decent waist belt looks ideal for use with chest rig
Large storage space
Molle systems allows for a fair bit of customisation

Cons:

Would need to buy a few additional molle pouches for the front to store stuff I'd like quick access to.
Waist belt isn't removable - potentially get in the way if using belt kit
Can't find any reviews

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Berghaus Vulcan II Bergen

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Vulcan II Military Rucksack - Official Berghaus Store

Price:£140


Pros:

Good price
Sturdy

Cons:

Not customisable
Green only (minor quibble)

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Dragon Supplies - Spartan SF Bergen


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https://www.dragonsupplies.co.uk/catalogue/1065-Spartan-SF-Bergen

Price: £329.99


Pros:

Good layout
Lifetime warranty

Cons:

Expensive
No reviews

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1157 - Custom Built Multicam Bergen

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Custom Built Multicam Bergens

Price: £275.99 - £353.99

Pros:

Heard lots of good reviews
Presumably high level of customisation
Well made

Cons:

Expensive
No reviews of bergens themselves

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Field Pack Air Support

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FIELD PACK AIR SUPPORT

Price:£200


Good layout
Sturdy
May possibly be able to get replacements through the system (but unlikely)

Cons:

Hard to find
Designed for belt kit

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Other options:

Image

Tasmanian Tiger Field Pack

http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/Tasmanian_Tiger_Field_Pack/

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Image

Berghaus Crusader

http://store.berghaus.com/p/packs/crusader-90-plus-20-mmps-rucksack/434644

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Image

Wisport Military Raccoon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wisport-Military-Raccoon-Rucksack-MultiCam/dp/B00C96BBRE/ref=sr_1_6?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1380329232&sr=1-6&keywords=multicam+rucksack

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And there's a couple of other options from the US market like Kifaru, Eberlestock and Mystery Ranch but I'm not sure how well they'll work with how my kit is set up.

The same with the 'Alice' style of packs from people like SORD or Tactical Tailor. As an aside - anyone know how they compare for literage with the standard UK issue PLCE bergan? (125 liters incl side pouches IIRC).

This is generally how I set my kit up:

Image

The important bit is my assault pack inside is at least half if not more packed (radio, batteries etc) depending on my situation so it takes up loads of room but is good to go at a moments notice.

Well - cheers if you've made it this far - any recommendations or advice would be much appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:48 pm 
Quite OK actually

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:36 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Europe
How about the Mountain Ruck BVS from Mystery Ranch ?

http://www.mysteryranch.com/military/body-armor-solution-packs/nice-mountain-ruck-bvs-pack

It has the BVS system and NICE frame which makes it comfortable with both armor and without. Pouch layout is good, though you'll have to attach additional pouches. Also the side straps could be used to attach bergen side pouches that you already have.

Out of the box it is 85L capacity (counting main compartment and the externals pouches). And with the other pouches, it should reach the 100-125L of the Bergen.

Pricewise, it's expensive. But you can buy it in two parts (the NICE frame and the ruck aside) to avoid selling one of your kidneys at the end of the month.

I used a NICE frame pack (the SATL and the one from camelbak, the trizip) with either my chest rig (CRCH from Blackhawk) or my armor (CIRAS/Paraclete RAV07), it worked great. I didn't use a belt kit with it though, so I can't say how it would handle with it.

Edit :


A mate of mine uses the 8-pockets ruck from LBT. It's nice and has an ALICE frame with it (can be swapped later for a more modern frame). It's about the same price range as the bergen from Dragon Supplies.

http://lbtinc.com/bags-backpacks-packs/backpacks/rucks.html


Last edited by chipmunka on Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:10 pm 
Earning his keep

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 260
Location: POL
From my personal experience I can recommend you Wisport and Granite Tactical Gear CHIEF Recce Pack.


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:58 pm 
The New Guy

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:53 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I'd say that Eberlestock's larger rucks might be just up your alley. Might be worth a look:
http://eberlestock.com/Tactical%20Master.htm


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:14 pm 
Earning his keep
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:16 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Czech Republic
For wearing with body armour I recommend Kifaru or Mystery Ranch. Also anything with ALICE frame fits nicely over body armour. I use Tactical Tailor Fight Light MALICE frame with custom made trampoline mesh kidney pad and modified MOLLE II straps, and it's very comfortable with and without BA and it's for reasonable price. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:57 pm 
Earning his keep

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:36 am
Posts: 347
Location: UK
Hey Danny... Any pics of your set ups mate?


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:02 am 
I can't work for assholes
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 8:18 am
Posts: 975
Location: Back in 'Murica...
Danny Jefferson wrote:
For wearing with body armour I recommend Kifaru or Mystery Ranch. Also anything with ALICE frame fits nicely over body armour. I use Tactical Tailor Fight Light MALICE frame with custom made trampoline mesh kidney pad and modified MOLLE II straps, and it's very comfortable with and without BA and it's for reasonable price. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.


I've got a very similar setup. I'll have to post pictures as well, but basically I'm using a heavily modified ALICE ruck with the Fight Light MALICE frame, the TT shoulder straps, and the TT waist belt with the kidney/lumbar pad. It's pretty awesome. If you can't get access to this, the HSGI ALIPAD is also a good upgrade to the ALICE style suspension, but you need the MALICE frame if you want to (comfortably) run the ALICE setup over armor.

I know the ALICE design isn't new or shiny, but it's a lot cheaper of a system than most everything else on the market and it plain works.


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:12 pm 
Earning his keep

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:36 am
Posts: 347
Location: UK
I'm running various set ups at the min, for several reasons, not just being a kit pest :-)...

Field pack air support as pictured by NZ. I use this most of the time, side pouches zipped on and compressed. They hardly get used except in extreme cold when you carry more or when it's a case of "here, we need this carrying".

Issued short back PLCE Inf Bergen... For summer infantry type work when I can get away with fewer layers, small sleeping bag etc. pouches have been added to the from (DIY task) and again side pouches stay compressed down.

Both of the above are good for infantry work with traditional belt kit of ops vests. Work OK with armour but not great.

Mix pack of MR BVS frame and the 10 pocket LBT beast. Loads of carry space (discipline req to not fill) and a great frame system, comfy alone or with armour. Not fantastic with belt kit but adjust the back and it's workable.

NZ DPM ALICE pack. Heavily modified with tripe pouch, bash a pouch and lid pouch. Zips for PLCE side pouches added and straps re-worked. Comfy with belt kit work and pretty good with armour.
I do need to invest in a decent suspension system as I'm using the standard issue one which isn't great.

Will post pic when I get time (if anyone cares).


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:54 pm 
Earning his keep
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Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:16 pm
Posts: 326
Location: Czech Republic
Here it is, MOLLE II straps are modified just with knife. With this you can adjust height of the frame and you can also switch from carrying weight on shoulders or hip by upper straps. Much better than any other ALICE straps I have seen.
Image

Bungee type hip pad, improved breathability, no sweat (this is prototype, it needs some reworking)
Image

Image

Lots of room for body armor. Also no hot spots when wearing without BA, no sweaty back
Image

Sits right between BA and first line belt.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:03 am 
Earning his keep
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Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Manitoba, Canada
I'll vouch for the Mystery Ranch Mountain Ruck. Loads of space, tough as fuck, comfortable for a long haul...
I've had mine since last January and have used it for a good amount of exercises. Everything from dismounted patrols to mounted ops to humping mortars and ammo around.

The only downside is the price, but like chipmunka said, pick it up in two pieces if necessary. I definitely recommend the rip-zip pouches and daypack lid if you go for it.

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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:52 am 
The New Guy

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:39 am
Posts: 15
Location: Missouri
You might want to take a look at Granite Gear's CHIEF stuff. It's designed well, fits a lot of your stated needs, and the frame and strap system is pretty awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:50 pm 
Quite OK actually
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:08 pm
Posts: 102
Location: UK
I've just picked up a Karrimor SF Predator 80 - 130 to replace my bergan after seeing this thread the other week.
First impressions it's massive and is very well made.
I've tried it on with my webbing, the back can be adjusted so can adjust to sit on top.
Also the waist belt is removable if you don't want it on with belt kit.
It is attached by velcro and some of the straps need weaving out. Probably not a quick 2 second job but is possible.
I've just sold my air support back bergan after getting this through the post as I'm that impressed with it.


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:42 am 
The New Guy

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:12 am
Posts: 11
I have the Warrior BMF bergen and highly rate it. Although it's clearly a copy of the PLCE Air Support Bergen, it's well made and uses mil-spec materials throughout.

It has excellent carrying capacity, as you would expect from a bergen of its size. I tend to use the main compartment and the external front pouches. The side pouches tend to be left empty or removed. As I'm based in Australia, I don't usually carry a lot of wet / cold weather clothing, so my third line fits nicely into the bergen and does not max it out.

A nice touch is the MOLLE loops that sit behind the side pouches. This means that you could remove the side pouches and attached the MOLLE pouches of your choice, should you wish to.

As the bergen is primarily designed for wearing with belt kit, it sits quite high up up your back, therefore clearing the belt/pouches. Also, there is no waist belt. Therefore wearing it with a vest/chest rig may not be as optimal, as none of the load will be transferred to the belt kit and the entire weight will be on your shoulders/back. I wear belt kit 99% of the time, so this hasn't been an issue for me.

Overall, I think it's a great pack and for the money you can't go wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:49 am 
Not completely useless

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:17 am
Posts: 92
http://source-military.com/packs/46-pro-95l.html

I recommend this pack
Its the standard pack of the IDF

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 Post subject: Re: The hunt for the right pack/bergan
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:43 am 
Not completely useless

Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:37 am
Posts: 79
Location: Spain
I've got hte Bergans crusader and goes very well to me, it's confortable enough to carry everything i need, shoulder straps are nicely padded, waist belt does its intended job very well ... i can't tell about wearing it with armor, but i guess that it will suck. As a "problem" with this model, it's not adjustable, you have to pick the right size, and it does not have side compression straps.
Never used the "day pack made with the side pockets".

Have you looked at the Norrona and Berghaus catalog? nice options there. Also the Tasmanian Tiger rucksacks seem nice specially the "Range 121L"


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