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 Post subject: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:58 pm 
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My buddy who is station at Ft. Campbell sent this to me this morning. Lucky for us, the text is to small to read.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:28 pm 
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top to bottom:

ADS with Cramer
Brookwood
Kryptek
and obviously Multicam. Too bad we can't see the other 2 of Crye's submissions.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:52 pm 
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So the Army is getting rid of UCP once and for all?

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:06 am 
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Nope. This is a test for the new camo, and means nothing concrete.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:28 am 
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:14 am
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Location: California
I'm particularly fond of the Brookwood stuff, especially the multicam look-a-like on the left. The center pattern resembles UCP-D in my opinion. I'd love to see how it fairs in terrains.


Good picture!


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:14 am 
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Coming from an AF point of view, I would love to see you guys walking around in any of those other than Multicam. Army-wide Multicam would ruin the pattern, but the rest of those would be hirarious!


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:28 am 
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That Kryptek looks the cleanest of them all so far. Brookwood looks like dogshit but it must have performed pretty well to make it to the finals...I'm guessing Brookwood is some backdoor government attempt to "win" the contract.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:57 pm 
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I'll just be happy when students aren't walking around doing land nav in blue cammies. Or when I teach camouflage and their faces are green and their wearing blue.


...and of course the actual people who are overseas.

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Horse,

I agree the brookwood looks like a pile of shit that has been fermenting in the corner of a crack house for quite some time however it still appeals to me. Im guessing the right hand side, along with the others, is the Aird pattern. I don't know how well that would blend into a sand based environment.

Remember, the army is also considering pattern that makes soldiers look like, well, soldiers! Not that I would know, but from my understanding a uniform generally demands a lot of respect and to get that respect one must fit the role. One of the things Im afraid of, potentially, is that the ADS/Cramer camo has been sold to so many "other," countries such as Afghanistan(ANA,ACOP, Probably more) that it might deter the government from buying in fear of being seen as something else. I could be completely off base here, however.

The brookwood and kyptek happen to fall in the same category, they look futuristic but do they scream "I'm a soldier!,"? I definitely like the kryptek and it looks like it had certainly done the job in some of the photos they released but, we'll see. Ultimately, the Crye still has yet to be revealed to pubic eyes and it is not up to us anyways...


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:56 pm 
Quite OK actually

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:44 am
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Location: Knoxville TN, USA
They need to just do away with a camo uniform all together and go back just Olive Green uniforms, or some sort of drab color. It'd save a ton of money and for 95% of the US Army it would work just fine... just my 2cents.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:13 pm 
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You mean like this? I think it'd be a hit.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:06 am 
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:14 am
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saxecoburg wrote:
They need to just do away with a camo uniform all together and go back just Olive Green uniforms, or some sort of drab color. It'd save a ton of money and for 95% of the US Army it would work just fine... just my 2cents.


I respectfully disagree. I'm not in the military, I just play dress up on the weekends, however I do see the value of camouflage. While it may not work while you're moving, there is a reason why most countries have adopted a camouflage uniform as standard issue.

Given that over the years soldiers were modifying their uniforms with camouflage and that technological advances have made wide spread use camouflage uniforms possible, I think it is a fact that camouflage does have its advantages over solid colored uniforms.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:59 am 
I need to get out more

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:06 pm
Posts: 722
Actually, no.

Most disruptive camouflage patterns mostly provide a distinguishing feature, indicative of nationality.

For a predominantly green area, typical subtropical forests, a plain olive drab uniform would satisfy 80-90% of the color requirement of the camouflage skillset.

For a predominantly arid area, typical desert/plains, a plain khaki uniform would satisfy 80-90% of the color requirement of the camouflage skillset.

Camouflage is an individual skill, rather than just a color or pattern, that consists of several elements:

-Shine
Covering up everything that can reflect light; skin, lenses, metal objects etc

-Shadow/Contrast
Avoiding appearing as a shadow in a bright area, also avoiding highlighting natural shadows in the facial area (eyes, throat). Use shadows actively to hide. Avoid making multiple tracks in winter during movement, as they can cast a shadow and are easy to spot, especially from the air.

-Shape
You want to erase the shape of the human body, and especially that of the head and shoulders. This is done regardless of head gear, and usually achieved by applying vegetation (local) or camo net bits. You also try to blur or erase any shapes that do not appear in nature, ie completely straight lines (rifle barrels etc) or circles (canon muzzles or objective lenses).

-Color
We try to use colors that are found in nature, browns and greens, while avoiding colors that do not exist (black, yellow, red etc). By using natural colors there is less contrast with the surroundings.

-Movement
The objective is to avoid detection because of movement, either during movement or in a static position. This not only relates to the body, but also the surrounding vegetation. A tree that gets snagged on a piece of gear, and violently comes loose has quite a characteristic motion.

-Sound
Avoid making uneccessary sound. This can cover everything from twigs on the ground breaking, coughing, talking, fidgeting with weapons, velcro pouches opening etc. This is especially important at night, as normal activity is absent, so there is less ambient sound to cover the noise we make.

-Silhouette
Avoid being highlighted against a lighter background (like snow) or the sky. This is relevant both during movement and when static. Also remember that the angle from the observer to you plays a part. While you might not be silhouetted to a person looking at you horizontally, a person below you might see you silhouetted against the sky.

Color is only one element here. Most people are actually located/spotted due to movement, either of themselves or surrounding vegetation, not color.

I am not saying that disruptive patterns do not offer some additional color-specific benefit over plain color uniforms, but it is hard to quantify. The best solution would be a single pattern for each specific environment, but that is hardly feasible.

At a given distance for each specific pattern, the colors blend and appear as one solid color. This is usually the happy medium, sufficient to blend into the surroundings.

For the norwegian woodland pattern, the color blend is as follows:

Dark Green(44% MGK-93)
Light Green(28% LGK-93)
Brown (28% BK-93)

At distances over 400 meters, this blends into olive green (OGK-96).

There are many apparent color variations in circulation, due to several different types of fabrics being used, and the fabric properties affecting the dye. Here is one iteration, shown on a Bergans Dermizax Smock:

Image

This is of course for the MK 1 Eyeball Sensor. For other types of sensors you need additional qualities (IR, thermal etc).

When we recently went from matching uniforms and load bearing gear, to coyote brown gear, there was a lot of scepticism towards the new brown color in a norwegian environment. We found that during winter movement, the guys still wearing the woodland camo vests were easier to spot than the guys wearing the brown vests. This was because the woodland vests provided greater contrast over the winter overalls, ie darker, that the eye caught on to easier.

I think the USMC has the best solution with their Woodland and Desert MARPAT, and single color load bearing gear. Not saying that a pattern has to be digital, but their approach and color scheme seems to work very well.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:34 am 
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If that's the case, why are militaries all over the world spending so much money trying to look for a new and expensive disruptive pattern for there uniforms?
I mean, they are the experts in this field.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:10 am 
I need to get out more

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:06 pm
Posts: 722
The theory of using patterns is that they help breaking up the outline, by blending in to the surroundings at closer ranges. With digital camouflage the theory is that the blurred outlines of the "pixels" makes objects harder too see, compared to patterns using larger blotches of color. Especially with passive IR sensors.

A neat video on weapons paint with good NIR capabilities:

http://www.nicindustries.com/cerakote_video.php

An article on NIR treatment:

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA433437

My experience is that people who hide are very difficult to see, regardless of pattern. Even with passive IR. The reason you see/locate people is usually movement; a head bobbing, a tree moving unnaturally etc. Also, people usually only camouflage themselves based on the foreground, not their background.

Like I said, patterns have a beneficial effect, but not as much as people think. Mostly patterns are for national identity.


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