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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:16 am 
Not completely useless

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:10 pm
Posts: 53
Location: West Virginia, USA
Image

This is what you people are calling professional and "in the running"? This looks like hell! I've just joined the Army and if that's the future uniform, I'll be doing anything I can get out of that contract.

As for ACU having a blue hue? Really? It has a green hue when put in a green environment, but still looks grey and black when put in a blue environment.

I'm all for ADS. Here's some more pictures of it...

Image
Image
Image

Looks an awful lot like Marines...seems to be working for them just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:22 am 
Quite OK actually
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That it does.. which is why if it gets adopted, there will be a whole slew of new Army jokes in the Marine Corps and yet another controversy of biting off of our camouflage pattern, wearing something they didn't earn, etc.

Not that any of that really matters when peoples lives depend on it of course, I just think there definitely should be a distinguishing difference in cut or something, otherwise it might become a bit of a morale issue. Happened once, it'll happen again. Just sayin'.

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:26 am 
I can't work for assholes
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This whole 'different uniforms for different services' concept is gayer than AIDS. Everyone wants to be a special goddamn snowflake. :roll:

The Marines had it right - pick two camouflage patterns, one for temperate and one for desert, and make gear in a single color that works with the two. Then everyone wanted to be special and have their own ball in the playground, and we ended up with the current smorgasbord of failure. If the Army wants a single pattern, stick with Multicam (we won't). It's the least bad option out there at the moment that's publicly released.

The American military survived quite well when everyone wore a single Woodland pattern. I don't think the sky would drop if everyone went back to a single pattern again...


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:26 am
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Location: Idaho and Green Bay, WI
MARPAT could work, if the Marines wanted to share it...


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:15 am 
Quite OK actually
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You're right PKM, but with that being the case, it should have never started in the first place. All of the services should have continued to adopt the same uniforms, but they did not. And now that certain branches (the Marine Corps for instance, but there are other examples as well) have already been given uniforms with certain distinguishing features, it's going to be kind of a hard bite to chew for some Marines when they see the average, conventional, noncombat army soldier wearing the uniform that they essentially got BRUTALLY hazed for 13 straight weeks to earn the right to wear, only with different name tapes. We are taught (at least in the beginning anyway) to have a sense of pride in that. We aren't even allowed to wear our cammies in public off base, it's unprofessional. The Army can wear theirs anytime and anywhere they want to. You see how these little issues and nuances could cause all kinds of morale issues and conflict?

This is really all for the sake of debate. Again, I don't necessarily feel this way personally, I'm just playing devils advocate a bit and saying this is the reaction I would anticipate if a pattern similar to MARPAT got adopted again. I personally think going back to military-wide woodland and desert camouflage patterns would be a great idea, but I guarantee you there are some that would feel quite differently at this point. The Marine Corps is extremely tradition oriented, and if they have anything to do with it, I wouldn't hold your breath on them sharing it with anyone except for our Docs.

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:42 pm 
Quite OK actually
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Echo, you have convinced me.

PCU L5 works great. Folks who rely on camo for their lives (i.e. snipers and sof) should get whatever the heck they want. Big Army on the other hand can do great with single color. Even infantry in A-stan seldom relies on stealth. What AGR is talking about (the skills of camouflage) is rather advanced for an average bear.

Let's not forget, Ladies and Gents that some of the forces that guide Pentagon's procurements and "research" usually come from Congress that is heavily lobbied by the very same industry that shits out patterns.

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:49 pm 
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http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/06/28/army-to-recommend-multicam-for-entire-force.html?ESRC=sm_todayinmil.nl
Quote:
Army to Recommend MultiCam for Entire Force

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:23 pm 
I need to get out more

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:06 pm
Posts: 722
Quote:
What AGR is talking about (the skills of camouflage) is rather advanced for an average bear.


Uhm....no. It does take practice to get every element down, but it is not advanced. It is still a basic skill.

The problem is that people are not practicing it anymore, because the current conflict does not "require" it.

The only thing that is cool now is what pattern the helmet is spray painted, and how many gadgets you can stick on it. I remember when pics of Rangers came out, with them having scrim, burlap and cam netting on their helmets, attached to helmet covers non the less, people were like WTF?! What's going on? What's that for?

We need to be practicing the proper fundamentals for fighting, to include camouflage from three different perspectives; Eyeball Mk 1, Enhanced optics (NVG, Thermal etc) and Aerial. Both personal, vehicle and fighting positions/bivouac areas.

The next war might not be in the desert or mountains against a technologically inferior force.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:15 am 
The New Guy

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:43 pm
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Location: Gothenburg
A last few comments on the pattern (that may possibly) be changed out.

The UCP pattern have always intrigued me. I could joke about it like others do but I got off the bandwagon after I saw Restrepo, if not sooner. When I look at ATACS I see a dirty and dusty ACU uniform like in the mentioned- and many other documentaries (no, I have not actually been to the #1 military quagmire of the world)
Many of the things UCP promised it failed at, but the one feature that impressed me was how the pattern improves with distance much more so than other patterns do (even other digital patterns).

The US Army brass could very likely with the UCP pattern also have been after some kind of psychological or moral effect, a "storm trooper effect" maybe? They know their history and sure as hell do remember the grey storm troopers of ww2.
Or they just saw the A-stan mountains and treacherous gravel roads... and thought UCP was the way to go.
I can't help but see the similarities with the M16 platform and the UCP pattern. Great but also not so great. Both were too much ahead of their time.

I agree UCP should be replaced but I believe there are few things that the UCP pattern actually does well, very well infact. If one could only filter that out and put it in a pattern that works ok in "well vegetated" environment...

Multicam is a beautiful pattern but it can produce a weird "glow" sometimes which I find very unnatural. Maybe it is the pink color and the main khaki color that together produce this glow, I am not sure (yes I talk about genuine CP fabric). Also it is a traditional "artist rendered" pattern for good and for worse.

The thing that puzzles me most is that both UCP and MC faired not nearly as good as the semi-arid prototype pattern in the original Natick trials (in 2003 I believe?). It seems to me the US army the last 10 years have not used science to their very best advantage when it comes to camo-patterns. And have wasted (and still ongoing) a lot of the tax-payers' money because of this neglect.

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:06 pm 
Not completely useless

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:13 pm
Posts: 78
Location: GER
Many here seems to be an engineer plus known how the human eye and brain, plus the logic process how we analyze information and set priority, work - correct?

I don´t say there aren´t some in here, and I don´t say that every company who develop camouflage pattern´s got one,
but I think the big one´s and the military put many resource in research to all directions.

They will test every think out in theory and practical they could,
so they will get to some point and take "the" optimal pattern for the needed envoirment.

What some one thinks in here is 100% garuntee considert by someone other bevor,
and the released patterns will work good for the time they are invented.
And yes, maybe some older ones are better than exceptet cause luck or some other unknow fact.

But what I want to say: Keep calm, if they choose a bad pattern, don´t support it by buying.
If you want ao change? Contact some researching company and talk with them...

Thats not offens against someone persons in here,
I just need to laugh that a little few replys got some bullshit text in, just cause there mind says some pattern XY got bad features, only by "analyzing" a pattern without daylight sun in some real envoirment and think it looks "akward" cause there never was been something like that...

Example:
There never was a plane,
can some baker 200 years ago now take a point if it is possible to build one - or can´t he cause he don´t got the background and the fundamentals to think about a problem like that?

Just my 2 cents,
I like many pattern that are released nowerdays.

Ps.:
Some Militarys out there got the same pattern since 20 years or more,
and they still use it, with lesser losses in battle than some hyper-modern combat pattern.

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:29 am 
I can't work for assholes
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Got forwarded an e-mail from PEO yesterday, the ADS stuff looks like it's in the lead for selection right now.


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:17 pm 
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I hope they decide sooner, rather than later.

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:12 pm 
Quite OK actually
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I just wanna see Crye's submission.

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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:07 am 
The New Guy

Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:41 am
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Location: Duluth, MN
I thought the army has been using multicam for all of its units for the last few years and has gotten rid of ucp. (Finally) :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: US ARMY Camouflague 2012
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:54 am 
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No. Multicam (or OCP - Operation Enduring Freedom Camouflage Pattern) is, as the military name suggests, only for deployment to Afghanistan. ACUs still continue to be worn in every other post/station/country/environment.


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