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 Post subject: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:26 am 
The New Guy
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Big news confirmed by Soldier Systems; Crye Precision has won the Army's latest camouflage selection.

http://soldiersystems.net/2013/09/22/sm ... r-us-army/

This announcement has been a long time in coming, and while not official yet, I'm willing to take what we can get.

Honestly I believed (along with most people probably) that ADS had this one in the bag, and perhaps Kryptek might have been the upset winner. But Crye? Didn't see that one coming.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:00 am 
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Both Crye and ADS made a lot of sense. The biggest advantage to Crye is that it allows you to use existing stocks of OCIE until the transition is complete. The US Army has HUGE piles of Multicam/faux-Multicam (i.e. OCP) gear in the system, with more coming in daily from either new sourced items or refurbished items from contractors. It only makes sense financially for Crye to get the contract, and once I saw that the US Army was looking to avoid paying a licensing fee I figured the Crye family was in the bag.

The advantage to ADS is that ADS has a good system in US4CES, supposedly which performs exceptionally well, and ADS is vertically integrated with ties to most levels of the US Army acquisition system. Kryptek is a non-starter, despite what the online pundits would have you think.


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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:22 am 
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Glad we finally found out who the winner was, but I am still VERY interested in seeing pictures of Crye's patterns. Seeing as they are the only ones who have yet to show them publicly.


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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:04 am 
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I really doubt the common sense of anyone that thought Crye wasn't the winner from day one.


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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:21 am 
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@Kaoskydex: I have seen the CP's arid version a while back (can't say if it was the final version though), it basicaly looked like a MC pattern with more brownish/tanish tints (although I'm sure there was more work behind it).
It kinda reminded me of some sort of german/danish desert camo scheme. Haven't seen the woodland version though.

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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:18 am 
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I did think that US4CES had a fighting chance, but the best option was to go with Crye.

Looking forward to actually seeing the patterns.


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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:07 pm 
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I really thought ADS was going to take it as others were. Hopefully the Crye patterns will be shown soon.

Now I'm gonna go offload my extra UCP kit for dirt cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:33 am 
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Fish wrote:
I really doubt the common sense of anyone that thought Crye wasn't the winner from day one.


That's pretty easy to say now that the results are known. But how would you have argued the case from "day one"? What did Crye have in it's corner that the other finalists did not?

We were told that Multicam or OCP was used as a baseline pattern and thus not eligible for consideration. That meant that any cost saving measures by adopting an already in use pattern were out the window. We were also told that this competition was not about cutting corners or reducing costs but rather finding the best available camouflage no matter the expense.

The data (or sales pitch if you'd like) made publicly available by Guy Cramer built a pretty strong case for the US4CES family of pattern's effectiveness. That cupeled with the previously mentioned integration of ADS and it's affiliates would seem to be an offer the Army couldn't refuse.

It was said that all four finalist patterns were extremely close performance-wise until the end. I think it will be most interesting to see where the 2nd, 3rd and 4th place competition take their products from here.

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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:52 am 
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The Crye "family" is expected to just be tweaks of the colors, that means legacy multicam equipment and PPE are good to go with these new patterns. The Army was looking at licensing multicam, this late in the game, that is a clue.

All of this "scientific" ADS data, is some of the most biased work I have seen, not to mention ADS footed the bill, who are the scientists on the ADS payroll going to pick?

Kyptek was a non-starter, it is not a Garrison uniform and we all know the Army can not, not have a Garrison uniform.

Lastly, that bill looming for 2018 that says standard uniform across the board, if you don't think the other branches told the Army they could eat a dick if they didn't choose multicam, you are living in denial.


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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:47 am 
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Fish wrote:
The Crye "family" is expected to just be tweaks of the colors, that means legacy multicam equipment and PPE are good to go with these new patterns.


Are we just assuming things or have you actually seen the new patterns in conjunction with Multicam? As much as I'd like for that to be the case, the supposed desert/woodland scorpion camouflage I've seen doesn't look to be that complimentary. Then again, I will wait to see the actual patterns before making any claims or wild ass guesses.

Quote:
The Army was looking at licensing multicam, this late in the game, that is a clue.


They also just purchased an additional 750,000 uniforms in UCP. Is that also a clue? Just saying, it doesn't necessarily mean more than face value. Maybe they finally realized how much royalties were costing them in the long term. Or maybe they really were trying to secure the rights to "Multicam" along with the other patterns acquired from the latest selection. I don't know.

Quote:
All of this "scientific" ADS data, is some of the most biased work I have seen, not to mention ADS footed the bill, who are the scientists on the ADS payroll going to pick?


Did you miss the part where I called it a sales pitch? I don't think anyone was confused about Mr. Cramer's intentions, he was very upfront about them. However for the most part his arguments and points made regarding camouflage were perfectly valid.


Quote:
Kyptek was a non-starter, it is not a Garrison uniform and we all know the Army can not, not have a Garrison uniform.


Can you elaborate please? What makes one pattern a garrison uniform and not another? Does the Army have fashion police? Wait, don't answer that.

Quote:
Lastly, that bill looming for 2018 that says standard uniform across the board, if you don't think the other branches told the Army they could eat a dick if they didn't choose multicam, you are living in denial.


You mean the other branches that are so eager to preserve their own "heritage" and unique identities that insist on having multiple redundant camouflage patterns that takes an act of congress to un-cluter f***k? Those same guys that always agree on everything? Ok.

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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:56 am 
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Didn't ADS and Crye want something like $6 million for their patterns, while Kryptek wanted $64 million? I cannot find the article on SSD, but it was something like that. Brookwoods wanted $80 grand or along those lines.

For the actual contest, you were not allowed to submit patterns that were commercially available at the time, so it has to be a tweaked pattern from Crye, in addition to at least 2 more patterns, with an option for a PPE pattern.

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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:15 pm 
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For those wondering about the actual look of the CP patterns. I didn't know either and found this:
Link (scroll to bottom). Seems like this isn't the actual pattern though, but it's said to look pretty close.
And yes, it does remind me of german desert flecktarn (3FT)

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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:23 pm 
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They are old, as the article states.

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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Okay, I should have read more carefully. So is there any hard facts out there what it's going to look like? I mean, are there even known names yet?

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 Post subject: Re: New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Nope.

Even the dump site of Jimmy Hoffa and what was done at Area 51 are easier things to find out it seems.


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