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 Post subject: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:43 am 
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If one had a choice between Ceradyne and Safariland BALCS soft armor, which would you choose and why?


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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:09 am 
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AFAIK, Ceradyne made earlier contracts and today contracts are Safariland.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Either one will be fine. Important considerations are:

1) How old is the armor - less important for plates
2) What condition is the armor
3) How has it been stored


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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Perfect info, thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:36 am 
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What level protection is this? Because Fragmentation is mentioned it's making me think it's not level IIIA.

Thanks.
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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:25 am 
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It says frag/9mm doesn't it? That's not an NIJ standard..

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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:12 pm 
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US military armor doesn't follow NIJ standards. E/SAPIs are equivalent to NIJ Level 4 but are not designed to meet that specification, and the soft armor is designed to stop 9mm/frag, but is not designed to meet NIJ specification.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:00 pm 
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I didn't realize current military armor was not made to NIJ standards. I've heard so many discussions that compare them to NIJ standards, like soft armor is level 3A, ACHs are level 3, and SAPI plus soft armor equals level IV, with ESAPI being stand-alone level IV. I'd like to know how fragmentation/9mm compares to 3A.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:36 pm 
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It is a complicated topic. NIJ has been evolving a few times over the last 15 years, and I believe the IBA requirements (which is pretty much the mil standard) followed suit as well.
What can be said is that the military doesn't test soft panels with as many pistol rounds as NIJ, while they do perform tests for fragmentation threat, which NIJ does not.
Throw in the mix the usasoc/balcs requirements which seem to be a bit different than IBA's (can't remember exactly how though), and you will have a hard time assessing your undated panels performance vs current NIJ IIIa.
That being said, general survivability concerns are pretty close between civilian and military requirements, and so are the technologies used. Where you may find a difference is with specific threats like contact shots or .44mag shots. It doesn't mean that your panels can't stop them, just that they were never meant to do so and might suffer more backface deformation than what's generaly admitted for survivability.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:13 pm 
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Thanks for your insight Jack.

Now that I think on it, I do recall conversations about ACHs built to mil-standard vs LE possibly being different because of different requirements like LE not requiring fragmentation testing, or some such.


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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:20 pm 
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Yup, what is true for soft ballistic protection is also true for hard ballistic protection. Threat matrix are somehow different between battlefields and homefront. But that's a different topic alltogether!

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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:38 pm 
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Side note, I noticed with the old Ceradyne panels like this, some have an internal rectangular shaped padding or something either at about chest level or upper back level. I can't remember if it was the front or back panel I noticed it on.

Any idea what that pad is for?


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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:20 pm 
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This is just a wild theory pulled out of my arse, but could it have to do with the smaller trauma plates used in ye olde days that just protected a small area, like the heart region?

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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:44 am 
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Yeah, there was some stuff called trauma plates, not really sure about what they were for, but they were pretty skinny things...

B-Rad, look at the Crye Airframe vs their LEO (ARX) option, one is NJI certified while the other meets mil-spec.. They have different threat levels and requirements, and therefor Crye is offering two different products instead of just getting their Airframe NJI certified.

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 Post subject: Re: Ceradyne vs Safariland BALCS
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:22 am 
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An example of a Safariland carrier with rectangular hard plates - could ut be extra padding meant to fit behind one of these, perhaps?

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