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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:54 pm 
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lol, now and Russian made
http://srvv.org/catalog/1652/48696/ I hate this :!: ing copying

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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:20 pm 
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What's exactly wrong with that? Our armor technology is on par and the FSB operators will surely appreciate suspension and retention occ dial and liner offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:24 pm 
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chesnok wrote:
What's exactly wrong with that? Our armor technology is on par and the FSB operators will surely appreciate suspension and retention occ dial and liner offer.


China crap liner/rails/occ dial.


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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:33 pm 
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Seifer_ wrote:
China crap liner/rails/occ dial.


You gotta start somewhere to make the good stuff. Why reinvent the wheel?


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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:14 pm 
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chesnok wrote:
What's exactly wrong with that? Our armor technology is on par and the FSB operators will surely appreciate suspension and retention occ dial and liner offer.
If they appreciate someones design, then the proper way of showing that is to use the original product. It's Ops-Cores IP and probably hold the patent(s), and these guys are assholes for stealing it.

They don't have to reinvent the wheel, but these are just 1:1 copies. Thieves.

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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:21 pm 
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pkm200901 wrote:
Yep, the ballistic composition is Dyneema's. Ceradyne just made molded it to Ops-Core's specs. Ops-Core, since it was bought by Gentex in 2012, is now completely vertically integrated in manufacturing and distribution. Raw materials still come from Dyneema. Gentex has been making the helmets since late 2012.


It all seems to be coming together now. The military field tests Airframes in 2010-11. Gentex acquires Ops-core in late 2011. Maritime introduced in 2012. Airframes seem to fade from the U.S. military, as FAST helmets increase.

I really believe that the Gentex acquisition of Ops-core was the straw that broke Crye's "back".


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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:49 pm 
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I don't think these russian helmets are made with same technology as Ops-core. The shape itself isn't really cutting edge, so no big deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:19 am 
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chesnok wrote:
What's exactly wrong with that? Our armor technology is on par...


You're kidding right? Up until a year or so ago the only armor in use (Defender II) was the exact same armor since 2000 or so just in "updated" carriers. Heavy steel combined with heavy and thick soft armor.

Even the newer stuff (FORT Gladiator) is behind current American offerings.

Helmets are even worse. You guys were using titanium helmets up until 2005, and even now what about that abortion of a helmet that is the Kiver?

That all being said - I don't see Ops-Core losing any money over this. Russians who are willing to shell the dough to import Ops-Cores are still going to go that route I would imagine.

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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:18 am 
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Army issue kevlar helmets are fine, about this - dont know. But just copying "awesome" western gear makes me sad. Multicum, opscore- lost uniqueness. Well, time will show.

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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:38 am 
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danneskjold wrote:
You're kidding right? Up until a year or so ago the only armor in use (Defender II) was the exact same armor since 2000 or so just in "updated" carriers. Heavy steel combined with heavy and thick soft armor.

Even the newer stuff (FORT Gladiator) is behind current American offerings.


Defender is 2000 technology, FSB didn't have the funds to buy newer better stuff until recently.
What did US have in 2000? IBA? PBPV? Doesn't seem any better to me.

Current stuff uses plates that are on par with ESAPI (heavier but can take more hits before shattering) and the same kevlar, twaron and other para-aramids the whole world uses. All that is stuffed in Cordura carriers. You could argue those are not cutting edge, but Russia doesn't have a huge competitive market like US for high end manufacturers like Crye, BFG, First Spear, TYR to shave off ounces and fight for maximum comfort.

danneskjold wrote:
Helmets are even worse. You guys were using titanium helmets up until 2005, and even now what about that abortion of a helmet that is the Kiver?


Using titanium helmets has to do with our traditional SOP - "if you wear armor at all, might as well wear the heaviest sturdiest one". Modern "heavy" helmets (Altyn and Rys-T's descendants) are IIIA all around, including visor and glass. Even level IV helmets are available, but those are really heavy and I've only seen them on display during industry shows.

Kiver-m - 1.6kg weight, 248sq. inch coverage, 6.5g per square inch
FAST Maritime (L/XL) - 1.2kg weight, 100 sq. inch coverage, 12g per square inch
Doesn't sound that bad to me.

danneskjold wrote:
That all being said - I don't see Ops-Core losing any money over this. Russians who are willing to shell the dough to import Ops-Cores are still going to go that route I would imagine.

My point had nothing to do with Ops-Core losing any money. It was about not being ashamed of your local manufacturers copying proven successful designs instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. There is only so much ways to strap a bucket to your head.


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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Defender is 2000s technology and is still the most prevalent armor in use by the FSB. On the other hand, no US tier 1 unit has ever worn the IBA and the PBPV and similar platforms have not been used since the early 2000s at the latest. By 2005 most had transitioned to a plate carrier.

By your own admission the Kiver is also well over a pound heavier than the Ops-Core, bulkier and not as comfortable.

If Russian manufactured stuff was so great then why is their such a demand for American stuff? Why is multicam seen far more in use than Spectre or Surpat? Even TSSN is issued an Asian knockoff of a Crye G3 combat uniform in multicam along with a Taiwanese copy of a German chest rig.

Don't get me wrong - I love Russian kit, especially the older SSO stuff, I am just not under any illusions about it. I think the Partizan harness is the best belt kit ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:43 pm 
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I believe one main reason that the U.S. has such advanced body armor and helmets over Russia, is the Global War on Terror with wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The U.S. has a huge amount of money to throw at R&D to advance military technology. I believe if the 9/11 attacks never happened, we would not be seeing the advanced military gear we all go geardo over.

Just take a look at the advancement of military technology the 11 years prior to the 9/11 attacks vs the 11 years after.

War is good for advancing military technologies.


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 Post subject: Re: Real Ops-Core FAST XP High Cut?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:57 am 
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My point wasn't "our stuff is the bestest ever!!1"
My point was "our armor technology is on par", which is true. Our plates are slightly heavier but more durable, our soft armor is the same (because it has pretty much hit the point of diminishing returns, everybody uses the same handful of para-aramid fibers).
Our helmets are heavier because they usually offer two times the coverage, by design. Compare the coverage to weight ratios to see the armor quality.

What's really lacking is the accessories - carriers, pouches, headsets, suspension/retention systems, IR beacons etc. But then again, we don't have hundreds of thousands personnel deployed all over the world and our defense budget does not rival the world's GDP. And no huge civilian market for smaller innovating manufacturers to thrive.


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